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Everything you wanted to know but were too afraid to ask

Postby CheMateo » Fri Jun 09, 2006 11:13 pm

There are alot of things I've been wondering about regarding some issues involved with indy wrestling.

1. Can anyone please tell me the story of the promotion that was EPIC, I remember reading in a old Super Dragon interview that he had signed an exclusive contract with them back when they were up and running. What was there deal and why did they fold? Was it any good? Was there suppossed to be a 3 way match involving Super Dragon vs Ultimo Dragon vs American Dragon? If there was why did it not happen?

2. I hear a lot of good things about CM Punk. I hear his feud with Samoa Joe was great. CM Punk seems to be held in high regard by Paul E. Should I believe the hype? Why or why not? Also he did wrestle twice over here in PWG correct? Regardless of how many times it seems his matches over here got mixed reviews, could some folks elaborate?

3. What's the deal with Teddy Hart? I hear that he is fantastic and should be being promoted as a third generation Hart member in the "E" but due to his reputation and personality this is not happening at the moment. How good is he? What is it that seems to turn off so many wrestlers to him? Finally what was the deal with him in PWG and the infamous Hardcore Kidd vs Lit & Deranged match? Wasn't Hart going to take on Kidd?

If anybody is willing to take the time and answer all these questions it would be most graciously appreciated.
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Postby SoCalAndy » Sat Jun 10, 2006 12:22 am

1. EPIC was PWG before PWG was around, but with a bigger budget. It was ran by Gary Yap, a guy who didn't do much in the wrestling business and was trying to get into XPW. One story I heard was that him, Excalibur, and Disco Machine wanted to book Super Dragon vs. American Dragon vs. Ultimo Dragon at EPIC's 5th show. The building ended up not being paid for and the show was cancelled and there was a lot of chaos and a lot of workers ended up not being paid. There's a lot more to the story, and it's best to check out SoCalUncensored.com for info. Here are some columns on what happend.

http://www.socaluncensored.com/columns/steve111702.htm
http://www.socaluncensored.com/columns/scrub111802.htm
http://www.socaluncensored.com/columns/ ... 111802.htm
http://www.socaluncensored.com/columns/crast111902.htm
http://www.socaluncensored.com/columns/ ... 112002.htm
http://www.socaluncensored.com/columns/ ... 112302.htm
http://www.socaluncensored.com/columns/pault112102.htm
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Postby SoCalAndy » Sat Jun 10, 2006 12:29 am

I hit enter too quickly:

2. CM Punk is a mixed bag. He's had good matches, but a lot of them are really overhyped. His PWG stuff was terrible(aside from his match with Super Dragon) and PWG fans hated him because of how he stole the Curb Stomp in 2004. He wrestled here once in 2003, five shows in 2004, and the return match against Reyes in 2005. It all depends on the person you ask, but I don't think he was great inside the ring. He was great on the mic in ROH though.

3. Teddy Hart did a show in ROH in 2003 in a cage match with several other workers. After the match he went nuts and broke kayfabe by no selling things and doing moonsaults off the cage. He then went online and cut a bunch of crazy promos and became an internet darling. He had many attitude problems and no showed a bunch of bookings in 2004 and fell off the face of the earth. The PWG thing was totally random and he didn't want to work HKK because he thought he wasn't a big name. He was just in town for a NJPW USA Dojo tournament and HKK was going to face The Messiah, who couldn't make the PWG show. So Hart, Lit, and Deranged were thrown in.
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Postby SoCalAndy » Sat Jun 10, 2006 12:41 am

SoCalAndy wrote:1. EPIC was PWG before PWG was around, but with a bigger budget. It was ran by Gary Yap, a guy who didn't do much in the wrestling business and was trying to get into XPW. One story I heard was that him, Excalibur, and Disco Machine wanted to book Super Dragon vs. American Dragon vs. Ultimo Dragon at EPIC's 5th show.


Correction, it was Disco, Excal, and Gary who wanted to booked SD/AD but had nowhere to book it. So EPIC came together and the Dragon 3 Way was booked for the 5th show.
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Postby TigerDriver98 » Sat Jun 10, 2006 1:35 am

EPIC screwed over a lot of people that day. I'm just glad I decided not to buy advance tickets for that show! But it's train wrecks like EPIC that make you appreciate how well ran PWG seems to be

Also... if you want to hear something funny, here's a short interview clip from Lit talking about his PWG experience (sound is low): http://www.sendspace.com/file/4wilh0
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Postby Paul Burns » Tue Jun 13, 2006 1:25 pm

I'm quite a big fan of CM Punk, but I'll admit his PWG run was extremely underwhelming. None of his matches were good+, usually they were "okay" at best. Even his match w/Super Dragon at RFTS (Which I had high hopes for) was pretty dull. As was his match w/Corino, and his match w/Reyes. However, his ROH work (Particularly his Raven, Samoa Joe and Jimmy Rave feuds) are excellent and I definately recommend checking them out. Punks heel reign in ROH in the summer of '05 was also very entertaining.

Teddy Hart is very athletic and he has some crisp moves, but on the whole he's over-rated. At ROH 'Main Event Spectacles' (November 2003) He was involved in a 'Scramble Cage' match, and after the match (Keep in mind, it was the Backseat Boyz who pinned Special K to win the match) Teddy Hart went nuts, climbing the cage and doing a shooting star press onto a few workers who were lying in the ring after the match.

This wasn't planned at all, and so it was very dangerous. Teddy then climbed the cage again, and hit I think a corkscrew moonsault to the floor, where wrestlers had to jump in to catch him (Again, unplanned)

Then after this, Teddy got back in the ring and climbing each side of the cage, playing to the fans and then doing a landing moonsault. He stopped and threw up, then went back up and did another moonsault. ROH Booker Gabe Sapolsky then came down to ringside and yelled (At I think Jack Evans) to get him outa there.

This lead to the entire locker room hating his guts, with Carnage Crew and Samoa Joe all wanting to kick the shit outa him. Teddy cut some promos on the net and became the hottest topic of indy wrestling.

ROH then bought Teddy back for Feb/March 2004 "At Our Best" for a 6 man mayhem match. Everything was going okay then, when Jimmy Rave had Sonjay Dutt in the crossface, for no reason Teddy Hart climbs the top rope and does a shooting star press senton onto nobody. They stopped using him.

As for PWG, well....let me just say buy "PWG: The Musical" because the Hardkore Kidd/Deranged+Lit match is my FAVOURITE comedy match in PWG history. My god, there was SO many blownspots and botches, all kinds of fuck-ups and the commentating was HILARIOUS....so yeah. Buy iy :wink:

And in closing for my thoughts on Teddy, he's got some decent highspots but he's nothing special.
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